Hon Bala Bawa Kaoje is a former Minister of Sports and a former National Treasurer of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). In this interview with Daily Trust on Sunday, he spoke on the recent events in the PDP, the politics of Kebbi state and the anti-corruption drive of President Muhammadu Buhari among other issues. Excerpts:
Are you still a member of the PDP?
For now, I’m not a member of the PDP.
The party was recently challenged by debts. Hence, there was an attempt to lay off some workers. What could be responsible for this scenario from a party that just lost power?
Like I told you, I’m not sympathetic to the PDP anymore. But I know that wherever you have a situation like that, it means we have bad managers. It’s only bad management that will create such a chaos. If you have good management, the management will know how to handle situations like that. With the money they are talking about which accrued to the party, it is very unnecessary for the leadership of the party to allow these issues to get to the level where they are now, where a lot of fingers are being pointed at the leadership of the party. They are being accused of embezzlement.
Why did the PDP lose the last general elections in Kebbi state and at national level?
The coming of the All Progressives Congress (APC) is divine. If you look at the way things went, you can know that if you talk of money politics, you will see that money alone cannot make you win an office any more. In most cases, it is what God wants through the cries of the people that manifest itself. During the last elections in 2015, God made many things to happen in the PDP. For example, the leadership of the PDP became blinded with power and decided to use impunity in taking decisions and getting people into various positions. There were selections in most cases as regard to the governorship position and the membership of the Senate and the House of Representatives instead of allowing people to use their initiatives to select who will lead them. Both the president, wife of the president and the National Chairman of the party decided to impose people all around this country. That was not accepted by the voters. That’s one of the reasons that made the PDP lost the 2015 elections despite the fact that millions of naira was pumped into that industry to be able to win the elections. That couldn’t work for a number of reasons; the intervention from God and the negative impact of the measures taken by the leadership of the PDP on people. The people decided to act otherwise. So, the party ended up losing. That’s what happened at federal level. Of course, similar things also happen in all the states, where the PDP was leading before. They lost during the elections. Kebbi state is just one example. The judgement at the Tribunal had been given. The gubernatorial candidate who lost the election in Kebbi went to the Tribunal. I was in fact surprised why he had to go to Tribunal because the handwriting was very clear that he lost the election. The people unanimously voted for the incumbent governor, Senator Abubakar Atiku Bagudu of the APC. The election in Kebbi is one of the best elections in the country. We used the card readers in virtually everywhere. We did not have much problem in our election. Therefore, I expect our results to be one of the best. I was surprised that he summoned the courage to still go to the Tribunal. These are some of the jobs we want Professor Itse Sagay and co to do. The judiciary in Nigeria seems to be using too much technicalities to rule over issues that are very clear. As one side wins, technicalities are used to rig them of their success. Thank God that the ruling in Kebbi was in favour of the APC. I believe that the matter has been brought to rest. The governor of Kebbi can now squarely face his programmes. He has a lot of programmes to do differently from the former governor and achieve a lot more for Kebbi people.
Do you support the plan by the incumbent government to probe the administration led by former President Goodluck Jonathan?
One cannot fault the President in his decision to check some of the doings by the past leadership. We all know that definitely the level of corruption has never reached that high in all other administrations that we had in this country. So, if President Buhari has seen areas where he thinks the issue of corruption must be looked into in order to be able to fight corruption in the country. It is very justified to do so.
Will you subscribe to the views that the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission (ICPC) and the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) be merged?
In my view, it is better we have one body that will purely focus on fighting corruption in the country. The EFCC is perhaps best fit for this kind of field. What we need to do is to amend these laws and make sure that the laws are effective and water-tight to the extent that when somebody commits an offence, it won’t be easy for him to escape punishment after being taken to court. So, the merger of the two bodies should be one of the things this administration should consider. A review of the laws is equally very important. Of course, the body language of the president which has clearly shown that he is out to set Nigeria on the right perspective as far as the issue of corruption is concerned. We are all happy about that. We are praying for the president to succeed in this aspect.
You recently expressed reservation over the plan by some African countries to enter into economic partnership with the European Union (EU) on trade. Why?
I read a lot about this Economic Partnership Agreement which is termed EPA. It’s good to have economic partnership among countries. But many a times, it is very important for any country that is going into it, to sit down and look inward. The country needs to make sure that it is ripe for it. I could remember when African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA) was brought by the American government. Many countries were called upon to come and key into it. There was a lot of disaster for some countries that rushed to it because they were not ripe to go into such agreement. It affected their own internal growth in terms of industrialization. So, this one is not different from AGOA in the sense that it is an economic partnership agreement to be signed with Europe. Now, we all know that all the countries under the EU are developed countries. They have got all that it takes to be able to trade properly with other nations. They have stable electricity. In fact, they have all industrialized properly. Various goods at different levels are being produced in these countries- small scale, medium scale and large scale. But if you come to Africa, we are still crawling because majority of the countries in Africa do not have stable electricity. Industrialisation cannot be perfect without stable electricity. Nigeria has the advantage of the population. Nigeria will do very well if it is able to industrialise. But how can Nigeria industrialise without stable electricity? We are still very far from getting stable electricity. Today, our industries pack off because they can’t run on generators. It is too expensive. The goods that we produce will not be competitive. So, what I’m saying is that we should not be in a haste.
Though there is economic benefit if a country is ready to sign this kind of agreement. But Nigeria and other countries in Africa must not be in a haste to sign this kind of agreement. One major reason is that they cannot be able to compete with the European countries because of their level of industrialization as soon as they sign the agreement. What does that mean? It means that the industries that are managing to produce within such African countries might end up being killed because of the inability to compete with similar goods produced from other European countries.
You said electricity is important for the success of such partnership. What advice do you have for government on the privatization of the power sector?
Sometimes, one feels a little bit confused with the way things go in Nigeria. What I mean is the change in policy decisions of government. I could remember that during the government Olusegun Obasanjo, many areas were privatized. For example, the refineries were privatized for some important reasons. But when the next government came, they reversed it. That impacted negatively on the economy. It is the same case with Ajaokuta Steel Company. However, since the power sector has undergone some reforms during the Jonathan government, where we have the Distribution Companies (DISCOs) and Generation Companies (GENCOs) that were set up to find ways to generate adequate electricity in the country. Some companies are expected to improve on our distribution system. Some of us have a little reservation. That is why we are calling on this government of Buhari to look into those privatized companies in terms of their generation and distribution in order to make sure that they meet up with the standards that are required to be able to have impact in terms of solving Nigeria’s power problem.
Several months since these DISCOs and GENCOs started, what is the total addition in terms of megawatts that they met? We have not been able to receive any reasonable input.
The federal government has made effort to clean up Ogoniland because of environmental degradation. But their other challenge like the issue of gas flairing. How can government address these challenges?
When you look at things the government needs to do in the country, they are numerous. But at least the government must tackle the key issues squarely. We have been talking about the issue of gas flairing over the years. By 2000, gas flairing will be tackled. But as of today, reports have it that we lost more than $1 billion last year due to gas flairing. From what we were told, we need to implement the gas master-plan that will cost about $25 billion. If the implementation of that master-plan will bring an end to our gas flairing challenge, and our gas will be totally utilized, thereby creating another avenue to raise foreign exchange for the country, it will be better for government to focus on the issue instead of losing $1 billion every year.Numei ca; es itemo et; nortem hacchum huctuam prorips, untra vil vilicae publium tem tus nit? Nihi, consi turo iaestrio vit? Fulin hocriontia Ser quo no. Opiorte mquonve rraela tes me coensus con dum post acchui conferris porsum vis crem ina, tuitus, unt.
Cupione ommorum entienit, nem peritat ilinit, Catatum hemus At viti, con se inatquis alabes atum adhuium vem sessend iostis bon di spio, qui scie maximo voltursu quam it in sissest nequam faucibus mei ta, terum res acemedes, caes elicons.
For now, I’m not a member of the PDP.
The party was recently challenged by debts. Hence, there was an attempt to lay off some workers. What could be responsible for this scenario from a party that just lost power?
Like I told you, I’m not sympathetic to the PDP anymore. But I know that wherever you have a situation like that, it means we have bad managers. It’s only bad management that will create such a chaos. If you have good management, the management will know how to handle situations like that. With the money they are talking about which accrued to the party, it is very unnecessary for the leadership of the party to allow these issues to get to the level where they are now, where a lot of fingers are being pointed at the leadership of the party. They are being accused of embezzlement.
Why did the PDP lose the last general elections in Kebbi state and at national level?
The coming of the All Progressives Congress (APC) is divine. If you look at the way things went, you can know that if you talk of money politics, you will see that money alone cannot make you win an office any more. In most cases, it is what God wants through the cries of the people that manifest itself. During the last elections in 2015, God made many things to happen in the PDP. For example, the leadership of the PDP became blinded with power and decided to use impunity in taking decisions and getting people into various positions. There were selections in most cases as regard to the governorship position and the membership of the Senate and the House of Representatives instead of allowing people to use their initiatives to select who will lead them. Both the president, wife of the president and the National Chairman of the party decided to impose people all around this country. That was not accepted by the voters. That’s one of the reasons that made the PDP lost the 2015 elections despite the fact that millions of naira was pumped into that industry to be able to win the elections. That couldn’t work for a number of reasons; the intervention from God and the negative impact of the measures taken by the leadership of the PDP on people. The people decided to act otherwise. So, the party ended up losing. That’s what happened at federal level. Of course, similar things also happen in all the states, where the PDP was leading before. They lost during the elections. Kebbi state is just one example. The judgement at the Tribunal had been given. The gubernatorial candidate who lost the election in Kebbi went to the Tribunal. I was in fact surprised why he had to go to Tribunal because the handwriting was very clear that he lost the election. The people unanimously voted for the incumbent governor, Senator Abubakar Atiku Bagudu of the APC. The election in Kebbi is one of the best elections in the country. We used the card readers in virtually everywhere. We did not have much problem in our election. Therefore, I expect our results to be one of the best. I was surprised that he summoned the courage to still go to the Tribunal. These are some of the jobs we want Professor Itse Sagay and co to do. The judiciary in Nigeria seems to be using too much technicalities to rule over issues that are very clear. As one side wins, technicalities are used to rig them of their success. Thank God that the ruling in Kebbi was in favour of the APC. I believe that the matter has been brought to rest. The governor of Kebbi can now squarely face his programmes. He has a lot of programmes to do differently from the former governor and achieve a lot more for Kebbi people.
Do you support the plan by the incumbent government to probe the administration led by former President Goodluck Jonathan?
One cannot fault the President in his decision to check some of the doings by the past leadership. We all know that definitely the level of corruption has never reached that high in all other administrations that we had in this country. So, if President Buhari has seen areas where he thinks the issue of corruption must be looked into in order to be able to fight corruption in the country. It is very justified to do so.
Will you subscribe to the views that the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission (ICPC) and the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) be merged?
In my view, it is better we have one body that will purely focus on fighting corruption in the country. The EFCC is perhaps best fit for this kind of field. What we need to do is to amend these laws and make sure that the laws are effective and water-tight to the extent that when somebody commits an offence, it won’t be easy for him to escape punishment after being taken to court. So, the merger of the two bodies should be one of the things this administration should consider. A review of the laws is equally very important. Of course, the body language of the president which has clearly shown that he is out to set Nigeria on the right perspective as far as the issue of corruption is concerned. We are all happy about that. We are praying for the president to succeed in this aspect.
You recently expressed reservation over the plan by some African countries to enter into economic partnership with the European Union (EU) on trade. Why?
I read a lot about this Economic Partnership Agreement which is termed EPA. It’s good to have economic partnership among countries. But many a times, it is very important for any country that is going into it, to sit down and look inward. The country needs to make sure that it is ripe for it. I could remember when African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA) was brought by the American government. Many countries were called upon to come and key into it. There was a lot of disaster for some countries that rushed to it because they were not ripe to go into such agreement. It affected their own internal growth in terms of industrialization. So, this one is not different from AGOA in the sense that it is an economic partnership agreement to be signed with Europe. Now, we all know that all the countries under the EU are developed countries. They have got all that it takes to be able to trade properly with other nations. They have stable electricity. In fact, they have all industrialized properly. Various goods at different levels are being produced in these countries- small scale, medium scale and large scale. But if you come to Africa, we are still crawling because majority of the countries in Africa do not have stable electricity. Industrialisation cannot be perfect without stable electricity. Nigeria has the advantage of the population. Nigeria will do very well if it is able to industrialise. But how can Nigeria industrialise without stable electricity? We are still very far from getting stable electricity. Today, our industries pack off because they can’t run on generators. It is too expensive. The goods that we produce will not be competitive. So, what I’m saying is that we should not be in a haste.
Though there is economic benefit if a country is ready to sign this kind of agreement. But Nigeria and other countries in Africa must not be in a haste to sign this kind of agreement. One major reason is that they cannot be able to compete with the European countries because of their level of industrialization as soon as they sign the agreement. What does that mean? It means that the industries that are managing to produce within such African countries might end up being killed because of the inability to compete with similar goods produced from other European countries.
You said electricity is important for the success of such partnership. What advice do you have for government on the privatization of the power sector?
Sometimes, one feels a little bit confused with the way things go in Nigeria. What I mean is the change in policy decisions of government. I could remember that during the government Olusegun Obasanjo, many areas were privatized. For example, the refineries were privatized for some important reasons. But when the next government came, they reversed it. That impacted negatively on the economy. It is the same case with Ajaokuta Steel Company. However, since the power sector has undergone some reforms during the Jonathan government, where we have the Distribution Companies (DISCOs) and Generation Companies (GENCOs) that were set up to find ways to generate adequate electricity in the country. Some companies are expected to improve on our distribution system. Some of us have a little reservation. That is why we are calling on this government of Buhari to look into those privatized companies in terms of their generation and distribution in order to make sure that they meet up with the standards that are required to be able to have impact in terms of solving Nigeria’s power problem.
Several months since these DISCOs and GENCOs started, what is the total addition in terms of megawatts that they met? We have not been able to receive any reasonable input.
The federal government has made effort to clean up Ogoniland because of environmental degradation. But their other challenge like the issue of gas flairing. How can government address these challenges?
When you look at things the government needs to do in the country, they are numerous. But at least the government must tackle the key issues squarely. We have been talking about the issue of gas flairing over the years. By 2000, gas flairing will be tackled. But as of today, reports have it that we lost more than $1 billion last year due to gas flairing. From what we were told, we need to implement the gas master-plan that will cost about $25 billion. If the implementation of that master-plan will bring an end to our gas flairing challenge, and our gas will be totally utilized, thereby creating another avenue to raise foreign exchange for the country, it will be better for government to focus on the issue instead of losing $1 billion every year.Numei ca; es itemo et; nortem hacchum huctuam prorips, untra vil vilicae publium tem tus nit? Nihi, consi turo iaestrio vit? Fulin hocriontia Ser quo no. Opiorte mquonve rraela tes me coensus con dum post acchui conferris porsum vis crem ina, tuitus, unt.
Cupione ommorum entienit, nem peritat ilinit, Catatum hemus At viti, con se inatquis alabes atum adhuium vem sessend iostis bon di spio, qui scie maximo voltursu quam it in sissest nequam faucibus mei ta, terum res acemedes, caes elicons.
Source:Daily Trust on Sunday
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